In this episode of Creations Paths, Charlie and Brian delve into the concept of unity and what it truly means. They explore the idea that real unity doesn't come from conformity, but from the diversity among people, especially within spiritual practices such as druidry and other pagan traditions. They discuss personal experiences and emphasize the importance of maintaining distinctiveness while finding common ground. The episode also challenges the authoritarian mindset often found in religious and ethical discussions, advocating for an open, respectful dialogue that values different perspectives.
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] Charlie- New: In this time of gathering,
coming together, there's a lot of talk of unity. We talked about it a bit on the last episode. I feel it's something we really need to dive into and really ask ourselves the question. What. Is unity? Today on Creations Paths.
Intro
hello everyone. My name is Charlie I am a non-binary scifi fantasy writer. I guess I should also say practicing Druid. I never know how to do the intros for these things.
I'm joined as usual. By my husband, Brian.
[00:00:41] Brian - New: Hello.
[00:00:42] Charlie- New: Today we're going to be talking about unity about coming together. And what does this actually mean? I touched on it a bit in the last episode. I'm going to reiterate it here. Cause I don't think it can be said enough because I really do love the Hey Galean understanding of unity that: unity is impossible between people who are all the same. If something is all the same, it is. Conforming it is. Conformity. Not a unity. You can only unite disparate parts. Diversity is required for unity. If there's no diversity. There is no unity.
This is something that I feel like the church. I kind of understood a little bit back in the day. Where there was unity on the essentials of the creed and practice kind of differed a little bit from here there and yonder and. The things that weren't set in stone in the creeds there was leeway on. Of course that didn't last forever.
For those of us who are involved in druidry and other. Pagan and Cristo pagan endeavors. Diversity is the norm.
No two Druids probably practice the same. Even if we're in the same order. There are. Pagan Druids, Christopagan Druids, animistic, Druids, people like me, who. I don't see a distinction between animism and panentheism so I use those words interchangeably. I honestly don't really see a difference between them. Maybe that should be an episode in and of itself.
We have theistic non-theistic. True. It's we have secular Druids, which is actually a thing in Wales, which by the way, the, , Welsh put their national channel up on the internet for free, for anybody to watch. So if you want to actually watch. The national ish death fog. Fog in. Whales, you can do that. And it is an interesting thing to watch. But that is actually a secular order of Druids that are meeting their. That might sound weird to our ears. But this is the diversity that we have in the community.
No matter what your practice is. We all unite about something. Around something. And I'm going to use drudgery here is the main example for this. Cause I think it's easiest to see. In drudgery because we all connect over one central idea and that is the outlet.
We are gathered. Under the breadth of inspiration. That divine force that is moving through the cosmos. Bringing all things into being. The great song of the universe.
We all experience. The Alwyn differently. And we speak about it differently. It works within us and a great diversity of manners so that we make all. Types of art. And other creative. Activities from it. It inspires our lives are living. It inspires us. To be inspirations to others yet, we're all United in this one charge. We seek. The Awen.
That is special. Even if we see it differently, even if we have a different understanding of it or a different way of working with it. We have this thing in common. This one thing. In common. That unites us.
It doesn't matter. If you're. A member of the. Ancient. Order of Druids in America. Or the order of bards Ovates and Druids or any of the probably hundreds of druidic orders that exist throughout the world. We have this one thing in common.
In common. Let's say that again. In common. Not. In conformity.
[00:04:32] Brian - New: That's where we can talk. About. What unity is not. It is not homogeny. Homogeny is everything is blended together and becomes one. It becomes a thing. That isn't unity. That is. A one thing. In fact, a lot of its distinct parts. are lost. are no longer distinct.
Unity binds together. Those different things, but it still allows. Distinct voices distinct notes. Within it.
If you think back to Some of the stuff we were talking about yesterday. We touched on unity a little bit. There is. Peace. But those notes are still there. Being a chef, I go back to, Cooking. as a great example. Of what it is. In a dish, you have these different ingredients. That you're bringing together in unity. To create. a, dish. Each element. Still has its flavor that it contributes. Each element should be able to still stand on its own. Otherwise, it's homogeny.
[00:05:38] Charlie- New: As we were talking about the great song of the universe. Very few songs only have one instrument, no cords. There are songs that do. But they're rare. We generally have a melody and a harmony and a countermelody. Cords are the underpinning of most Western music is we think of the chords first and then the notes. Second.
That coming together. Different voices. Is what makes the music beautiful? It's what makes it haunting powerful. It's what. Gives meaning to the songs. That's what gives meaning to the song of life. I've never really understood this terror that some people have. When others don't share their particular religious beliefs.
Most of my work I do with Bridget. I also. Work a lot with Mary and Jesus, but mostly it's with Bridget.
I don't. Care. If anyone else. That I'm talking to dealing with whatever. It's talking about Brigid of Kildare. or the goddess Brigid. Or. If they even think of her at all, if she's just a character from Irish mythology or. I non entity to them. I don't care. Because I know what she is to me, and I know the work that I have to do, and it's not my job or anyone's job to. Convince other people. That they should. Work for work with, or. Have devotion to Bridget.
I've always felt that way about my Christian faith. As well. Jesus said that they'll see our light they'll. By our works they'll know us. The apostle said that by our love, they will know that we're of God.
I remember as a kid being taken out to go door to door. It felt weird to try to proselytize. Other people. Why. What is the point of that? Jesus said I have all of those that you gave me and I have not lost one of them. My sheep, hear my voice. Well, if Jesus is calling and people aren't hearing. There's nothing I can do or say that's gonna. be more profound than the divine being. Making a call you know what I'm saying? It never quite made sense to me. And I think it's because of this. Sense of inadequacy or fear of being wrong?
None of us wants to ever be wrong. About anything. It's not a good feeling when you get corrected. Some of us take correction better than others, but it's never a good feeling when you realize that you misspoke or you misunderstood something. You have just a moment of embarrassment, if not shamed, depending on how you've been raised. And so we don't want to ever feel like we are wrong. So we want people to conform to our ideas. Because if they also. Agree 100% with me. Then how can I be wrong? If they disagree with me, that might mean that I'm wrong. And I can't be wrong. That would be it. a hit to my ego that I just can't take. Right. So we. Try to force those thoughts on other people. We try to force those ideas on other people. We tried to bring that conformity about and in, so doing, we erase any chance we could possibly have. For unity.
Some of the deepest conversations I've ever had about Jesus have actually been with Jewish friends of mine who don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but do believe that he was a Jewish rabbi in the first century. We have a lot of very disparate views about who this person was and what he means to the divine economy. Salvation in general, we have very different views.
Those differences of opinion. Never made me question whether or not I was right. The greatest danger. To unity in my humble opinion. Is certainty.
Certainty is it. Horrible thing. I've rarely ever felt it in my life. In the few times I did, I immediately assumed I was wrong. Turns out I was.
Certainty is a lie that we tell ourselves. That this is 100% absolutely. The truth, capital T the truth.
[00:09:52] Brian - New: It's part of permanent thinking. So I like to call it. Where. lot of individuals like to think, because this thing is in this moment. It always has been and always will be. Like it's permanently this thing no, it is this in this moment. It may change. Hopefully we'll change. Odds are. Yeah. It will change.
[00:10:14] Charlie- New: Nothing is permanent. Nothing is permanent. . came to that. Opinion long before I got deep into Buddhism. It started with, I was raised in evangelical Christianity I really. Knew since I was a kid that I wanted to be a pastor, I wanted to be a preacher, that's the calling that I felt. In my heart. And so I thought it was very important for me to study. To learn. The more I studied, the more I learned, the more I found a diversity of thought. I found. People disagreeing with each other. I found that the beliefs that I had been raised as the perennial eternal truths of the church, We're very recent. Now recent doesn't mean bad reason doesn't mean wrong. It does. Show. Uh, flaw in the logic when you're telling people this is the way it's always been when this is not the way it's always been.
See if we were striving for actual unity. There would be room. For differing opinions. There would be room for differing practice. There would be room for us to sit back and go, here's my encounter with Jesus. Here's my encounter with the holy spirit. What does that mean to you? How does that relate to how you're experiencing things? And instead we have this false prophetic movement. And the church. Where I heard from the Lord and the Lord told me blank. Now everyone better. Believe it because the Lord said it. Really.
[00:11:40] Brian - New: I'm sorry, I'm laughing over here because. that goes back. One of my core things. Freewill is a gift from God. So if someone. Tells me, well, the Lord said, therefore, you must comply. I'm like, that's a direct violation of freewill. It self negates at that point.
[00:11:58] Charlie- New: Which is why Calvin got rid of free will.
[00:12:00] Brian - New: Yeah. This is why a lot of those movements have to get rid of freewill. I was going to say cult, but I didn't want to just, you know, it is. I mean it is cultish. But I didn't, I didn't want to see. We get that bag of worms. If worst comes to worst, we were talking about unity and yeah.
[00:12:16] Charlie- New: If nothing else, it's a, it's an authoritarian mindset. If you don't want to use the word cult. It is an authoritarian mindset. To say I have the capital T truth.
Especially when dealing with. Ambiguous things. Politics religion. Certain aspects of ethics and morality. Get into gray areas, which is why there's always that like limb is Rob. Uh, argument, right? It was it wrong to steal a loaf of bread? Yeah. I mean, these are arguments we've had for a long time. For him to say. Augustine wrote an entire book online where he labeled hundreds of different types of lies, and then went through the question of, are these good, bad or evil? And oh, that's a lot of time worrying about things,
[00:13:02] Brian - New: which I could answer. If I standing on one foot. . Judgment belongs to the Lord. Amen. Whew.
[00:13:09] Charlie- New: I prefer Hillel's answer. Was it too is way better. But when you find hateful to don't do that to others, the rest is commentary. Yeah.
[00:13:17] Brian - New: This goes back to the whole thing with unity. It's. It's those connecting points. It's sometimes distilling bigger things down into their elements. And finding out what is common. And what other connecting common points allowing the rest of it to be what it is.
[00:13:34] Charlie- New: Because the real question here isn't actually unity or conformity. The reason we titled this gathering together. What is unity? Is. Gathering. Often. In many people's minds. Intimate, uh, power structure. There's more than one human in the room. We must have a leader. We must have someone who speaks for us. While there's nothing wrong with having a leadership structure, when a leadership structure is necessary.
There's a difference in assuming we have to have a leader. You don't always have to have a leader. Sometimes you need a facilitator. Sometimes you need a guide. But you don't always need a leader. You don't need somebody to follow.
It's so comforting to follow. They do all the hard work. All you have to do is accept everything that they tell you.
Hmm. I don't like that. Because then you have to trust that they actually did the work. One of the things that I learned early on in my life as an evangelical was they hadn't. I remember the first time I read the Bible from cover to cover. And then. Went back to church. And was like, but that's not what it says over here. I was able to see what origin would later say the debates that are happening in there.
I've mentioned this before, but in his commentary on. The sermon on the Mount origin says that blessed are the peacemakers. Refers to those who can make peace with the scripture. Against itself.
I feel like that's a little bit tongue in cheek on his part, but. It's true. This is a book written over hundreds and hundreds of years. It's not even all book. It's many books that are in conversation with each other.
They don't agree. On a lot of things. But they're all describing a shared common experience. There are people who are gathered. Together. Bringing together diverse ideas. Diverse opinions. All seeking for the truth.
That requires that diversity of ideas. If we all conform. If we axiomatically, except this is the capital T truth.
There's nothing to discuss. There's no conversation. To be had. There's just the conformity. There's just the obedience. If you are somebody who has an authoritarian bent and looking for power, of course, that is. The. Method that you are going to favor. Over any other method? Because it empowers you. Because you were the one with the capital T truth.
This is the problem that the Catholic church fell into the Orthodox church and all of the other churches that followed in the reformation. This is the great argument that ends up breaking out amongst all these people, the Quakers.
Because believe it or not, fundamentalist, Quakers appeared. That said, no, we can't even have music. At our services.
Which is an opinion. It's one that I would debate vigorously, but if that's your belief, I've been to silent services. They're beautiful. I've been to services with music. They're beautiful. We used to attend the church of the good shepherd in Berkeley, California, and often, almost every Sunday. They did a sung mass. The whole entire service was sung from start to finish. All of the prayers, the whole thing, and it was beautiful.
That doesn't mean it's the right. Way.
' see, this is. Where. Unity becomes a dangerous thought. When you think that we're trying to find the right way. The way.
You're going to start telling people that they can't believe the way that they want to practice the way that they want to live, the way that they want to.
It's all in service of insecurity. Any time somebody tells you this is the absolute 100% God's honest truth.
No, that they are about to try to take authority over you.
That's it. It's a power play. Because. Jesus tells us that he is the way. The truth and the life. He doesn't tell us that his teachings are the way, the truth of the life. They're found in a person. Why are they found in a person because then you have to have a relationship with them. And do you know what there is no canonical version of a relationship?
We've been married for. Decades. Like I say the actual number. Even saying decades feels. Like they feel old. But we've been married for a really long time. I'm sure. My understanding of our relationship is different from your understanding of our relationship. If you asked any of our friends that have known us for a long time, They would tell you different stories about our relationship. Too, because of what they have seen from the outside, the little bits that they've seen. But relationships. Our diverse opinion. Each party has their own opinion. You can try to say, well, God's opinion has to be right.
Again, read the book.
We are told that there is a flood because God repented of making humankind.
Oh, ouch.
That's an owey.
But it's in the book right now. I have to accept to every line. That's in this book is 100% God's honest truth. We've god changed his mind about making human beings. That we shouldn't have existed. And decided to wipe us out. And then decided, well, I guess a few of us can live.
We see throughout the scripture, a God that changes. His mind.
[00:19:01] Brian - New: It's the fascinating part of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. when actually read. God sets up. One thing changes their mind. And then,
[00:19:09] Charlie- New: well, he and Abraham to beta. I have a big debate. Yeah. If there's a hundred righteous men, are you still going to do it? Yeah.
How about 10. 10 righteous. And he's, they're gonna just turn the city. Um, I guess that. There's one, if there's just one righteous person in all of the city. So we're going to do it. Uh, I guess not. So what's got to do. Finds an end run around the argument and sends angels in, just get the one righteous family out of the town. So it can be destroyed anyway,
that's a very relational story.
Do you get, you know what I'm saying? And we're not even going to talk about like did fire and brimstone literally rain down from the heavens or anything. That's a moot point. That's not the point at all.
That's the drama. That's the Michael bay element. The whole point of the story is this relational experience. All of the profits have a relationship with God.
and his EQL yells back.
It was Moses. You need to go save these hula Moses, cause I'm not worthy. I can't talk. And he's like here. Cured. Yeah, you can talk. It wasn't like he couldn't actually talk, but I mean, you're just like, I'm not an eloquent speech speaker. He was like, here. Medic rough on your tongue. Now, you know, Those Isaiah. Jose wasn't oh yeah. For Moses. Was your brother. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah. Do you have a brother? To Aaron we'll do it. Yeah. Yeah. And. And the real secret is Marianne will do everything in there. Moses and Aaron will take the credit. Okay. Again, read the story. Yeah.
Well, not everything, but a lot of it.
How's the phrase goes behind every. Powerful male is secretly actually a female holding them up.
Did Moses this case quite literally. .
Since these are relational stories. When you went to take them. For Beetham 100% is true. And must be accepted. You lose that relationship and the whole point and purpose of them collapses. This is true with any kind of a community.
[00:21:04] Charlie- New: I understand having standards in your community. We should have standards. I don't want violent people. In my community. ,
[00:21:13] Brian - New: this is part of the essential of unity. There is. The core, common connecting parts, the parts that actually connected each member together, the core. Usually the court is very small. You can think of it as in like the difference between smoke. Versus a cloud. Versus your breath. At the core, they all have oxygen in there. So the oxygen is the common gas. That makes them altogether, even other different things. Yeah. It's that? You have the corn. Th that's a unity, but the rest of it. It's personal practice.
[00:21:54] Charlie- New: I had a friend coming to me recently and asked me if I could teach him magic. He knew that I'd been a practitioner for most of my life. Asked if I could teach him. What's been interesting seeing the scene. What feels like his surprise. in that I'm trying to help him discover the path that you should walk down. I'm not. I'm trying to make him be a Druid.
Practice Druidry. Practice any form of Irish or Celtic spirituality.
I made some offers of different paths. We found the one that he was most interested in and that's the one. That I have a lot of knowledge in, cause I'm practiced hermeticism for quite some time and still kind of consider myself a hermedicist in a lot of ways.
But then started showing him the diversity, even there. And in that field.
That is the strength of it. There isn't a canonical text. That you'd look to. That tells you, this is how you do it.
Here's a shared language. That's what you're learning. And that way you can talk to other practitioners and share your experiences and try to learn how to do things better. But there isn't really a singular way to do it. We will all find our guides, guardians and gods differently. Whether we find them at all. Some of us will just work with. An amorphous force.
Or just to look at it as a psychological trick that we play on ourselves to help us to get to the places we want to go.
Can I tell you which of. Those is right. True. No. I can't. I wish I could. I think that'd be kind of nifty if we had a magic meter, like they do in a lot of fantasy movies. TV series. Right. But we don't. I can't tell you which of these it is. So why would I pretend. That I have found the right way. The only way.
What I'm looking for in any community that I gather with. Is a diversity of opinions.
I don't want it to be confrontational. I don't think confrontation is. The best way to. Have a discussion or a debate. But I love a good lively debate. I have several friends that that's pretty much all we do is debate. And are you about things? Two of my best friends actually are. Atheists. We have profound debates about faith and spirituality and religion. Whether or not, it means anything. We're should mean anything or could mean anything.
We're friends. We're very different in so many ways, but we're still friends. We still have that unity.
Because our friendship. Is the most important thing, the comradery that we have with each other. The fact that we know that we can have an honest. Dialogue. And not have hurt feelings about. We don't say hurtful mean things to each other. We. Question. And challenge each other.
We know that we're all always doing it for the best of reasons.
We respect each other's opinions. I can respect why they believe the things that they believe and they respect. Y, I believe the things that I believe. That is the ground bed of unity.
Now if either one of us came forward with an authoritarian. Now, this is the absolute 100% truth. Oh, there'd be a fight.
And there should be.
Because certainty. I've said this before, and we'll say it again. Is almost the easiest way to know that you're wrong.
Because certainty. Cuts off the questions.
And in the end, if you're not asking questions, You're not finding answers.
That's really what it's about.
Being in a place where you can ask those questions. And good spirits. In a way. That helps everyone to grow and be better. That's what it means to gather together. And that's what real unity is.
I hope. This conversation has helped you out. I hope it's meant something to you. If it has, please share this episode with somebody else that you think would like it, or put it up on your social media, . Really does help us out a lot. If you haven't already head over to https://www.creationspaths.com/ . Join. Our community over there. Trying to get some conversations started and. Really trying to. Build something together where we can have these conversations. That aren't just Brian and I talking into some microphones.
Really want to hear you? What you all have to say about these things too. And while you're there, if you happen to have a few dollars, Maybe sign up for a paid membership. It helps us out a lot helps us to keep these episodes coming to you. Also.
We'll be doing some classes soon and our paid members are going to get them first and then they'll go out to everybody else. But we really do believe that this should be free. But we got to find some way to pay the bills. Speaking of free. I have a huge resource over https://wisdomscry.com , which is my public journal. It has a lot of my thoughts. Essays on various topics from the last, I don't know, 30 years. Left foot over there. It's constantly being updated and refreshed and soon. We'll have a bunch of new articles about Bridgette. Go up. Want them all to go up together because they are so interrelated and interconnected. That I feel like it'd be better if they all go up together. And so separately. But definitely go over there and check that out and let me know what you think about that too. So until next time. My peace and light.
Fill your life. Amen. Amen,
Gathering Together: What is Unity